Recently looking for the remains of a second train bridge between Hedley and Keremeos I found cable remains in the river just
Just east of Riverside RV Park on Hwy 3
east of Hedley which confirm it's location which I recall from the 1960s before it was removed. This section of VVAE railway interests me and it would be great to find a map of this railway, I wonder if one even exists!
One of the first guidelines for our site, maybe the most important one is that the submitter actually be at the marker for submission. I have looked at this and my extensive research indicates there are many markers submitted and approved where the submitter never visited the site. Please, Please show me I am wrong?
Finally… if the major guideline for this site has changed please tell me?
We have rules, and we occasionally break them. Here are three exceptions to this one:
1. There was an experiment I talked the Board of Directors into approving in February 2022 to use well-researched public domain and Creative Commons licensed photos to create entries. There were a lot of correspondents and editors including yourself who were not happy about this and let us loudly know. The experiment was terminated four months later.
2. We've always had this exception: "for some very few entries without photos, their location was carefully researched." Regional editors can approve entries after careful research is verified, but don't do this very often. These researched entries can contain Creative Commons photographs. But see No. 1 above, because we're not keen on entries based on CC photos.
3. This is not really an exception, but it's worth mentioning. There are correspondents and editors who create entries using photographs taken by a friend or acquaintance who could not be bothered to enter them themselves. This has always been allowed and editors are very careful to verify the correspondent has permission to use the photos. I don't think it breaks this rule since our correspondent vouches for the photographer who stood in front of the marker.
The Locations page has been updated with better automatic scrolling and with the addition of country pop-up maps. Since the p
age was rebuilt five years ago, browser technology has improved and starting today the page takes advantage of smooth-scrolling positioning to bring columns you've clicked for into view without over-scrolling.
And you'll find new Ⓜ icons that pop up maps of the world to show the country in question in relation to its neighbors. In 2021 a machine-manipulatable blank world map was published in the public domain on Wikimedia Commons and I've incorporated it into the database for this new feature. Rather than storing a map for each country, the same map is panned, zoomed, cropped, and highlighted on demand to create a static map that displays the selected country.
One thing that remains problematic are the varying sizes and colors of type for the circled letters and numbers. I'm still waiting for the day UTF icons get standardized.
Please email me if you run into any trouble, and feel free to reply to this post if you have any suggestions for additional improvements to this page.
This is great! Thank you for any enhancements that help with international use! Would it be possible to see a region-wide map of markers in some of the smaller countries of the world? Or multiple countries together, like the US and Canada or Guatemala and El Salvador? Mil gracias!
Regions of the World would be an excellent new feature, as would regions of the U.S. A problem would be when regions do not correspond to country and state boundaries. But then problems have solutions.
The last of the backlog has been cleared—thank you, editors! We now know which is the definitive 200,000th entry in the Histo
rical Marker Database.
William Fischer, Jr. of Scranton, Pennsylvania, submitted the 200,000th entry on September 4, 2023. It is titled African American Life. He first clicked the Submit button for that entry at 7:06 PM EDT, and that click became another milestone for the Historical Marker Database. Congratulations!
Bill also managed to file another milestone, the 25,000th entry back in 2010. He's submitted more than 15 thousand entries with more than 50 thousand photographs since he joined the team of self-directed volunteers back in 2008. That's a lot of markers! And that's a lot of driving and walking around!
Thank you, Bill, for this and all the other entries you've added. And thank you, our 6,818 contributing correspondents and editors, for all the work and dedication that went into the other 199,999 entries in this, what Smithsonian magazine recently called “the most comprehensive resource of its kind.”
Makali Bruton recently filed This Entry from Spain, a four-language marker at the Montjuïc Fortress in Barcelona. It is in Calalá
The Count of Barcelona
n, Spanish, English, and French. One translation drew my eye: In English, Louis XIII, the French king and also the Count of Barcelona, is described as the “flamboyant Count of Barcelona.” But in Spanish and Catalán, he is described as the flamante or flamant count, and that word can translate to “brilliant,” “superb”, or “brand new” depending on the context. But I can’t find “flamboyant” as a possible translation.
The French translation uses nouveau, and gave me the clue, and Wikipedia concurred: Nouveau means “new,” and the King of France had been recently named the Count of Barcelona in the timing of the history that was being described.
But was the newly-named Count of Barcelona also an exuberant and stylish person? On the marker, and on our transcription of it, he remains the flamboyant Count of Barcelona.
Interesting! As JJ (and others that are lucky enough to speak multiple languages) knows, this is a great representation of 'false friends', words in two languages that look or sound similar but have very different meanings. The first one normally mentioned for English speakers learning Spanish is embarrassed/embarazada...which in Spanish means 'pregnant'. This is critical to know! During that same trip in Spain I saw the word 'pastis' on a local menu and asked for the strong-licorice flavored French liquor...but was surprised to hear that in Barcelona it is a cake! And so close to France! Always be careful with those 'false friends'!!
It's been published! You caught a great visual! And I echo your congratulations: Congratulations to us! All of us. Each of us
By Antoni Espinosa (CC By-sa 4.0)
. We did it! 200K! And there is no doubt we'll be at a quarter million shortly.
At the moment, the entry showing as the 200,000th published entry was submitted at 11:42 AM EST this morning. But there are still quite a number of earlier pending ones and each time one of those pending ones are published, the pawl will ratchet back pointing to an earlier entry as the next temporary 200,000th entry until the backlog clears. This is because the system timestamps entries with the submission date and time, not when they are published.
It may be a week before we know which one will be the definitive 200K entry.
Just seventeen more entries to publish or reject and we'll know what the true 200,000th published entry will be. Unfortunately, many of these have been placed on hold while an editor waits for something or another they need to publish them. At this writing, the pawl rests on an entry that was filed Monday the 4th at 9:19 PM. Will it ratchet earlier 17 more times? Or will it ratchet a fewer number of times, if some of the pending entries end up getting rejected?
Here are the contenders at the moment: ten marker hunters. Some of them have more than one entry on the ratchet. ►Tim Boyd of Hamilton Ontario, ►Brandon D Cross of Flagler Beach Florida, ►William Fischer, Jr. of Scranton Pennsylvania, ►James Hulse of Medina Texas, ►Devry Becker Jones of Washington District of Columbia, ►Cosmos Mariner of Cape Canaveral Florida, ►McGhiever of St Paul Minnesota, ►Bradley Owen of Morgantown West Virginia, ►Cajun Scrambler of Assumption Louisiana, ►Trevor L Whited of Kokomo Indiana.
Tonight there are just three unpublished entries sitting behind the current 200,000th, which was filed at 7:40 PM EST on the 4th. These are from way back in the queue so they themselves are not the contenders. But as they are published or rejected, they will affect which of four entries will become the true 200,000th database entry.
These are the marker hunters remaining in contention. They are listed in alphabetical, not time order: ►William Fischer, Jr. of Scranton Pennsylvania, ►Cosmos Mariner of Cape Canaveral Florida, ►Bradley Owen of Morgantown West Virginia, ►Cajun Scrambler of Assumption Louisiana.
Will Cajun Scrambler be sending himself the Cajun Gift Box prize?
Tonight there is just one older pending marker still in the queue, which means there are two marker hunters remaining in contention: ►William Fischer, Jr. of Scranton Pennsylvania, and ►Cosmos Mariner of Cape Canaveral Florida.
How about this oddity? An old bronze marker actually embedded into a new bronze address plate!
I challenged our Chicago M
Old Fort Dearborn Marker
etro Correspondent Sean Flynn to find a 1932 Colonial Dames plaque that was purported to be on Lower Lower Wacker Drive (a subterranean—but genuine—Chicago street two levels below current street level that Google Maps can’t figure out how to show you). He found it without leaving his house by doing some digging that led to his carefully examining this entry by Allen C. Browne that had been on our website since 2014. Old Fort Dearborn
Seems that the original marker was cleaned up and embedded into a larger street-number plate when the building it was on was refurbished. Look at photo No. 3 and read commentary No. 2 to learn the clue Sean found. Based on his discovery I updated the Erected-By on the entry.
Markers depicting memorials aren’t that rare. But markers depicting, well, markers? I’d swear I’ve seen a few, but only this
Sir William Osler in Canada marker, photo by Tim Boyd, 4/2023
comes to mind now. Our friend Tim Boyd of Hamilton, Ontario contributed this one, Sir William Osler in Canada, at the end of last April. I was fairly amazed when I saw it - it’s either genius or an abomination, I can’t decide which. Like the one JJ noted in the above, it’s something of a chimera.
Another odd set is out there: Historical Markers that point out historical markers! This one (erected as part of the Keyser H
Historical Marker near Post Office
istorical Walking Trail) functions to point out the marker to whose base it is affixed which was erected by the State of West Virginia. Historical Marker near Post Office
When a famous golfer has a really bad day at the L.A. Open, a plaque was installed. Then the plaque became famous. After it was stolen, a new, larger plaque was installed featuring a replica of the original: Arnold Palmer Took a 12 on This Hole
How about a photo of the new marker printed on the marker? Actually, a photo that shows the pedestal & frame for the new marker: Petre Ranch House - Heritage Square
An article in the Smithsonian magazine yesterday notes that "when it comes to historical markers, the hidden truth is this: In any given state, as many as ten or more entities could be putting up signs at the same time. Decades ago, states typically had just one official marker program. Now, many more state, local and private entities, each with their own policies and processes, regularly erect markers."
It goes on to say "Given broad similarities in design, it’s difficult to tell who’s responsible for the more than 185,000 markers recorded in the Historical Markers Database — a volunteer-run online catalog that’s arguably the most comprehensive resource of its kind—without a close inspection."
Recently had a change to a marker I submitted. The marker was difficult to transcribe, it was a more than a thousand word marker. After the change was approved it took me awhile but find that the change was an “m” at the end of one word as opposed to an “n”.
Is this where we are? Personally, I try to spend my time researching and locating markers.
I've had people correct me on my spelling errors a few times, and I've corrected probably 10-15 marker pages submitted by others. For some people like me, spelling is a pet peeve, but we live in an age now where it is easy to overlook our small typing mistakes. (Also, sometimes if the marker has a misspelled word, I usually don't correct it as I have it the same spelling they did...I realize a lot will disagree with this) Just remember, we're all volunteers on here, making this site better and better.
No, a spelling correction is not an admonishment....we all make mistakes and have the same goal of increasing the value of the site and the quality of its information...
I'm not trying to "stir" the pot. But the post on Tightening and Clarifying Editorial Guidelines and headstones got me wondering, about the publication guidelines. I'm fairly new and have posted under thirty markers. But I think over a year ago. I wondered if the Simon Boliver statue in New Orleans qualified as a marker.
See https://theclio.com/entry/11976
Merriam Webster defines historical as a: of, relating to, or having the character of history
Would a marker identifying an animal at a zoo qualify a historical marker?
See: https://www.hmdb.org/m.asp?m=190317
When it's just about the animal at the zoo. Not about civil rights, George Washington visited here etc...
The Bolivar statue serves as a war memorial rather than as a historical marker. Simon Bolivar was a general and statues of him serve as war memorials as do memorials for George Washington and Joan of Arc.
As far as animals at zoos (and that submission was my own)—interpretive markers at zoos can in fact serve as historical markers. Human interaction, both intentional and accidental, has affected populations of other species throughout the world, for better and worse. When a sign about a species shares its historical context, it definitely serves as a historical marker.
Here are a couple examples that are a bit less controversial in terms of whether they serve as historical markers: • the affect of DDT on the bald eagle population, and the efforts started to reverse its trend • the near extinction of the American bison and the efforts of zoos throughout the US, especially the Bronx Zoo, to reinvigorate the population
I think long and hard about markers at zoos before submitting them and recommend that others do the same.
If it’s a sign that merely describes an animal, it does not serve as a marker. If it gives insight into history, it does. See the Editorial Guidelines. ☺️ Marker in question
Concerning the Simon Bolivar monument in New Orleans, I have visited it and photographed it numerous times. The MAIN reason I have not posted it to the website, is because there is absolutely nothing historical on the monument other than his name. No dates, no nothing. If its going to be a stumbling block I'll happily add it, but I personally attempt to go for quality, rather than quantity. Not all of mine 100% adhere to editorial guidelines, but I try. Someone let me know if you want me to post it, all I have to do is find the photos. Scrambler
Well, my own thoughts go: • The Simon Bolivar statue is not a historical marker, but it is a war memorial. There’s different guidance around them. As such, it qualifies for the Database given our current setup. • We’re all volunteers here. It’s up to any individual to make their own choices about what they submit. • Quality definitely matters! And in my opinion this definitely serves as a war memorial.
Regarding the Maj. Gen. Frank Wheaton grave marker: Given the new guidelines for gravestones, I would not consider this a historical marker. However, I would accept it as a loosely defined war memorial since it carries the imprimatur of the State of Rhode Island.
We're fewer than a thousand entries away from a very significant milestone for database. At the current rate we should hit it
sometime in the next few weeks. The lucky correspondent who enters the 200,000th entry will receive a genuine imitation parchment certificate with a faux gold seal commemorating the feat.
We won't know which entry will be the 200,000th entry until maybe a week after it is published. This is because markers are published out of turn and what counts is when the submit button for it was first clicked, not when it was actually published. This is because the system stores entries by submit date and time, not the published date and time.
Until we came along, no one had ever counted the number of historical markers that had been erected, much less photographed and mapped them. I thought when I started the database that there could not be more than 100 thousand markers markers out there in the wild. Yet here we are approaching 200 thousand. And we're not slowing down: we published more than 500 new entries in the last 7 days.
And who is the "we" that are accomplishing this? We are you and the more than 6750 other contributing correspondents and 39 editors of the Historical Marker Database—volunteers all. What a team we make!
Two updates on this subject. First, I am real pleased to announce that Contributing Editor Cajun Scrambler of Assumption, Lou
isiana has generously offered to send the correspondent who contributes the 200,000th marker a Cajun Gift Box with some of the products he sells online, free of charge and postage paid. He told me that the box will contain a bottle of his “Swamp Scum” small-batch hot sauce, Bayou Blend low sodium Cajun seasoning, and a 2 pound bag of Louisiana Popcorn Rice. He’ll mail out the gift box to the winner and I’ll mail out the genuine faux-parchment certificate I promised earlier.
Second, between what the marker counter is showing as I write this and the pending entry count, the winning entry will most likely be filed in the next hour or two, and most certainly before dawn tomorrow. We just won’t know which one until our editors whittle down the pending queue, and that could take a number of days. I’ll keep you posted!
The 200,000th was filed yesterday, and it may already be published, for all we know so far. As I am writing this there are just 31 pending entries to publish or reject before the actual 200,000th published entry can be determined. This is because the database orders entries by the date and time the Submit button is first clicked, not when it is published.
There is still some time to wait, as some of the pending entries have been put on hold by editors who have asked correspondents for some clarification or additional information.
My Grandfather was R. Gentry Wilson. A document in the Florence Times about Sweetwater area of Florence said he sold a business in Florence and moved to Red Boiling Springs to manage a resort. This would have been around 1900. I know nothing else about it and sure would like to find out.
I am sorry to say that I don't think we'll be able to help you. We work exclusively with historical markers—those signs and monuments typically on the side of the road that tell a little bit of history. We are not affiliated with historical societies or historical archives; everything we have is online on this website and you are welcome to search it.
We’re tightening guidelines for gravestones-as-historical-markers entries, adding requirements to National Register of Historic Places plaque entries, and clarifying what we mean by “war memorials.” Why? To make sure the database stays relevant to historical markers, to document the significance of a place that got registered, and to consolidate the way certain war memorials are shown.
Take a look at the new FAQ Nos. 40, 41, and 42. The aim is to provide more guidance while maintaining broad editorial guidelines in order to to protect the database from crowding and dilution, and to avoid disappointing readers who come upon a scant NRHP page hoping for more.
The question underlying our entry criteria continues to be: can that sign instantly enlighten the typical passersby about something or someone in history? If it can, we want to catalog it.
Very much appreciate these updates. I have a few questions about cemeteries and gravesites, related to some separate Civil War research I've been doing that recently led me to at least two GAR post memorials at a local cemetery. My personal opinion is that these should all qualify, since in many other towns these monuments would have ended up in public squares or something like that. But I also recognize that this is HMDB and not findagrave, so want to make sure before I go back to get enough to create new listings: --One GAR post dedicated a metal plaque to veterans who were members of the post who (and I'm kind of paraphrasing here) "died and are buried at this cemetery, and those who died and are buried elsewhere." I need to confirm this for certain, but I believe the plaque is on the side of a gravestone of a former post president, whose personal information is otherwise chiseled into the headstone like a normal grave. Many other post members are buried around the cemetery under their own individual headstones. The wording of the plaque does not seem to honor any comrades who, for instance, died during the war and thus never were able to join a GAR post. I can tell you that in my research I have learned that erecting this memorial was a major goal for this post, and fundraising for it is discussed in many of its annual reports as well as in contemporary newspaper articles. Does this qualify as a war memorial? --A different post from a different town placed its memorial in this cemetery, with its veterans buried in plots immediately nearby. The memorial has a somewhat interesting backstory, as it once featured an impressive statue of a Union soldier that was vandalized and then removed at some unknown point a long time ago. The base of the monument remains today, and it simply states the name of the post with no other identifying information. Would this qualify as a war memorial? --OK last but not least, one section of the cemetery devoted to military veterans includes a large plaque with the names of more than 100 former Union soldiers who are buried in this section. I need to do some research but I believe many of these men did not have in-ground markers when they were buried, and this was installed much later (almost certainly in the last 20 years) as a way to honor them. Would this one qualify?
Strictly speaking, every gravestone is a memorial to the person buried there, and I suppose every gravestone to someone who died in the line of duty, or someone who was a veteran of this or that war, is also an individual war memorial. But if we follow this line of thinking, we become a specialized Find-a-Grave.com.
So maybe what we really mean is that war memorial monuments and plaques qualify, even if they've been placed in a cemetery. So those Grand Army of the Republic monuments, even if the statue has disappeared, qualifies. Be sure to explain what you've found in your entry to give the naked slab of concrete some context, and to help the editor out so he or she does not reject your entry out of hand. Give your research a voice in the "Comments on the Marker Itself" and/or "Comments on the Subject" and/or an added commentary. And if you can find a vintage picture of the monument with its statue to upload, even better.
That list of names you mention is more problematic. Is it just a plain list of names and ranks, like a directory of who is buried there, or did they make it a memorial by indicating they were veterans of this or that war?
Our job is to put public history online, not to infer it or write it from scratch. We amplify what someone else said when they took the time to say so on a permanent sign or monument. If they did not take the time, effort and expense to do it, we can't do it for them. That's what blogs are for, and we are not a blog.
thank you! this is very helpful. This is the soldier's plaque in question. These are all Union veterans of the Civil War bu
t there is no rank or unit mentioned (nor for that matter what state they represented). On one hand it is quite literally serving the purpose of replacing headstones, albeit without dates or any other information. On the other hand, it does also reference their service to the country in the manner of a war monument you might find in a park. I'm fine either way... but will definitely track down these GAR Post monuments to add them!
This YouTube video is about 18 months old, but notes the long history of historical markers and their many iterations.
Th
The Mission of HMdB (faux marker).
e nearly 14 minute video, with almost 74K views, mentions HMdB and provides a link in the description. You may even recognize a marker you have photographed previously or stopped to view.
The Adjust Filters pop-up on search, location, topics, and series results now has an additional filter capability. You
can now also filter on a portion of the marker’s inscription text. With this filter you can filter for entries that have a matching string of characters anywhere in its text.
The Inscription Filter is a character-string filter. It is case-insensitive and accent-insensitive, but other than that it is an exact character-by-character match. If you filter for, for example, «Butler Ranch» and the text of the inscription was typed in with two spaces between «Butler» and «Ranch», it won't be found.
Because character-string searches are outrageously inefficient—meaning it takes our server a long time to thumb through each and every inscription in the results looking for a match—the filter will be grayed out if the results have more than 2000 entries. But there is a way around this limitation: filter for other things first. For example, if your results consists of entries from every state, filter for one state to get the count down, then add the inscription filter to that smaller result. After you are finished analyzing the results for one state, filter for the next state on your list, and so on.
What follows would be considered by most to be esoteric and/or boring, so I will understand if you stop right here and ignore it.
This new filter solves a problem I ran into when searching for National Register of Historic Places entries. (We have a series for these kind of markers, but it has not been kept up, hence the reason to search for them.)
All NRHP markers have the words "National Register of Historic Places" in their inscription. But when I typed that in to the search box, I ran into a search engine limitation. That phrase has a "noise" word: the word "of". The database's search engine won't index it because it is so common. Words like "the", "and", "of", and a hundred others like them would overwhelm the search index because they appear so often, so they are excluded. Because of this the system searched for pages that had both the phrase "national register" and the phrase "historic place", but not necessarily next to each other and in that order, and separated by the word "of". Because of this hobbled but lighting-fast method of searching, the results had too many false positives.
But now with the new filter, filtering that initial result with the character string "National Register of Historic Places" will get rid of the false positives.
So, you may ask, why insist on the extra step? Why not provide a character string search on the Searches page as an alternative way to search? The answer is, because the server can't handle the load. Thumbing through all 200,000 entries doing a character-by-character comparison will take a very long time. And just a few folks doing these time-consuming searches at the same time would bring everyone else's response time to a crawl. Reducing the resource-consuming string search to just a few hundred entries as a second step solves this problem.
I often use the filters searching on Keywords or a partial title. I limit the search to the state I think the marker is most
likely located. Question is does unchecking "Include War Memorials" help put less of a load on the server? Does it also place less of a load as the only filter on a full location search?
The load comes down to how many entries it ends up juggling. Microsoft's SQL Server ranks with the heavyweights in the industry, so it clever enough to whittle down the 200 thousand entries in the order that it thinks will be most efficient. So picking out just one state is probably first, and maybe tossing war memorials might be second. It knows its own limitations and makes the inefficient string search the last filter. Then it sorts the results, and finally, it selects the first 100 to show you.
By the way, you're not really further filtering the results. After presenting you results its done. It does not remember what it last did for you the next time you click for a new result. It runs each iteration from scratch, throwing all the filters you've indicated at it. Even when you just click on Next 100, it runs the whole search from scratch, then throws away the first 100 entries to show you the next 100, etc. That's why you notice things slowing down when you are asl for, say, entries 1501 through 1600.
I have been working on a map project to locate all the Tuskegee Airmen sites and also black aviation-related places. A friend pointed me in your direction and it has been a gold mine. Thank you. —Henderson Smith III, Lt Col, Ret USAF. Black Aviation
Here’s one more you may want to add. TracesofWar.com has an article on Photo report inauguration of the Tuskegee Airmen monument near Ramitelli, Italy - detailing the unveiling in July, 2023, of a new monument in Italy honoring the Tuskegee Airmen. The location is a bit of a drive for most of us, but who knows, maybe someday somebody will get there and get us the pictures to get it into our database.
For those of you who may not be aware of the Traces of War organization, they are based in the Netherlands and specialize in war memorials and sites, in the broadest of senses. They have a huge database, in some senses similar to our own, and can be useful if one wishes to locate war memorials. The bulk of their collection is in Europe, but their scope is worldwide and they list plenty of American memorials. You can reach their database through the “Sights” link. I recommend them highly.
Great resource, I am hoping to visit Italy again and make a trip to the city and the old base. Thank you for the link to the other site, I will explore it for Tuskegee Airmen-related locations. Black Aviation Map
Recently I compiled a checklist for markers that were put up by the Illinois State Historical Society. I did it for many reasons, like I wanted to see how many were actually placed, and I wanted to see which ones were missing, intentionally taken down, indoor markers, etc. I know there's a Want List on here, and somebody did a great job of mapping them. Of course, I used the ISHS website as my source. (However, archived pages from the ISHS website list a few markers that no longer exist. Thanks Internet Archive!) Then I put a check in the checkbox to see if that marker was on this site. I've e-mailed the ISHS a couple times, trying to inform them about missing markers so anyone using their website won't be disappointed in finding a lost one...but both times I got the usual response "Okay, we'll look into it" and "Check Google Maps". Admittingly its disappointing that nobody is really revising their site and I'd hate to put it like that. But it's great they are continuously putting out markers, seemingly more than ever, especially with a modern format (some with pictures).
One of my projects is somewhat similar when it comes to a lack of records upkeep by the organization. The Santa Cruz Historical Society in California began designating historical landmarks in the 1970s as part of their blue plaque program. They merged with the Santa Cruz Art Museum in 1996. After some variations in the name, today, the combined organization is called the Santa Cruz Museum of Art & History. They have an incomplete ledger (nothing online) that lists designations from the 1970s through this year. The ledger does have notations when a designation was made but a plaque was declined. In one case a landowner told me his family was unaware the ancestral home (possibly the oldest existing residential structure in the state) ever received a designation, and a plaque was unwelcome even if it was offered. While tracking down other markers I sometimes came across newer markers not on the ledger, though some even more recent markers were listed. The staff I spoke with was helpful with getting me a copy of the ledger but I could not find someone knowledgeable about the program who could answer questions.
New York doesn’t currently manage its markers, but the state library and historians have compiled a list of markers.
The trouble is that locations listed are more than 50 years old, and roads and markers have moved. For example, signs listed as located on NY 23 are now located on Greene County 23B - which is old route NY 23.
Interesting stuff, guys! You're right about New York, as it is not fully documented.
My apologies go to those who were wanting to access the file but couldn't open it. I thought I did the right thing and hit the "Share" button on Google Drive, that way people who clicked on the link can access it. Apparently I did something wrong....oh well
Possibly some contributors may not be aware of the below link (shown on HMdB home page) that provides links to state, county, city, association, topics, and books on historical markers, some providing locations and photos.
He said via email the marker he is asking about is The Grand Dérangement / Le Grand Dérangement.
The National Society of Acadia and its Acadian Odyssey Commission, in partnership with the Friends of Heritage Church Acadia conducted the unveiling of the 14th Acadian Odyssey monument on 9/11/16. The Grand Dérangement / Le Grand Dérangement
At Englewood Road and Waukomis drive in Kansas City, MO is a park called the Frank Vaydik Park. For the life of me, I cannot figure out why it is so named, when that is a historical site where excavations in the early 1960s discovered a ton of artifacts indicating that the site was a Hopewell Indian site. Take a look at the 3rd entry down at the link below.
Instead it is named after some politician no one has ever heard of. It is a disgrace to the history of the area.
1. Find out who owns the park. A quick search shows that Frank Vaydik Park is the jurisdiction of Kansas City Parks & Recreation. (Note: Kansas City, Missouri is a different municipality from Kansas City, Kansas.) 2. Reach out to the owner and see if they are amenable to having a sign. They may or may not have a sign in the works. 3. Think about who's making the sign. The information for the sign should be well researched. The ownership will likely have a proscribed format.
Of course there are other options... If you have your own property where you don't have to ask permission to erect a sign, you might be able to just have a sign made.
I plan to go up on Friday. Didn't get a chance to go over the weekend or today and take pictures and post them to the site on Saturday. Unless someone beats me to it :-D
Just got back from a trip to Syracuse and central NY with my family (I also had three days to myself just exploring the regio
n and visiting sites). While I was there, I decided to stop by the William Pomeroy Foundation office since it says on their website their address in Syracuse. At first I thought it would be a waste of time, like there would be nobody there. But there were some people in cubicles at the time of my visit. I'll admit it was kinda awkward at first, because they weren't used to visitors. But I told them who I was and I was someone who appreciated what they were doing. And that I was a regular contributor to hmdb.org. From there I was introduced to Deryn Pomeroy, William's daughter. She was very nice and we chatted briefly. She even hooked me up with some swag, including stickers and a stuffed potato! (Apparently Syracuse takes special pride in their salt potatoes claim to fame...) It was a cool brief experience. Has anyone else dropped by there?
Reading about your cool visit to the William G. Pomeroy Foundation made me think - how many Pomeroy markers have contributors added to HMdB? Now I realize there are a number of markers Pomeroy has funded in full, including the post, but are not listed as the erecting organization. But still, HMdB is 6 markers short of 1,000 Pomeroy Foundation markers in the database.
To me that is phenomenal for a private foundation to have funded and is still funding!! Their website notes that since the foundation's beginning, in 2005, they have funded over 2,000 markers all over the United States. This is in addition to their original & primary initiative in funding medical research in AML (acute myeloid leukemia).
I have corresponded with Deryn many times. Thus far I have acquired ten William G. Pomeroy markers through two different 501(c)(3) organizations: The Niagara Frontier Chapter of the National Railway Historical Society, and Abraham Lincoln Camp 6, Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War. The three National Register of Historic Places markers were fairly simple to acquire. The seven Historic New York markers were very challenging to acquire. Only primary source material is accepted. Applications are only accepted by region according to their schedule. Expect many changes to proposed texts. Patience, cooperation, negotiation, and research are required skills and attitudes. If you seek to try the challenge, propose a marker idea to your 501(c)(3) organization. Be forewarned that success means you will have "marked" yourself for future marker acquisitions for your organization.
WGPF NRHP Program list: U.S. Custom House (Niagara Falls, NY), G.A.R. Hall (Hunt, NY; installation in 2024), Midway Park (Ellery, NY).
Historic NY Program list: Great Gorge RR (Lewiston, NY), Bridge Ruins (Lewiston, NY), Midway Park (Ellery, NY), Escape Prevented (Niagara Falls, NY), Charles A. Goheen (Honeoye Falls, NY), Baby Bear (Ovid, NY - dedication July 8th 2023), G.A.R. Post (Dalton, NY - installation in 2024).
I have been notified by the WGPF that come September they will initiate a "Transportation" marker program for historic structures pertaining to transportation.
We’re now serving more than 2 million pages per month. That is the official count by Google Analytics. Our server spits out many more pages than that, by its count, but Analytics noticed 2 million plus per month in the last few months and theirs is the Official Count by which you compare yourself to other websites. This is a new milestone for us. We reached the 1 million page milestone in mid 2021. We have doubled pages served in two years!
Our anonymized analytics show that in the last 30 days (and this is indicative of our typical month lately) 86% of the pages we serve are to users who arrive “organically.” In other words, they found a link to our website as the results of a search. The organic arrival average for websites is around 56%, so we are way above average on this score.
The other ways in are by advertising (0% for us because we do not advertise), from links in social media (2%), from links on other websites (1%), and “direct” (10%). Direct is when someone manually types “HMdb.org” on their browser bar, or clicks a shortcut, or on a link in an email, or scans a QR barcode.
Back in mid-2021, search was some 70% of our reach, so it appears that more folks are finding us on search and that is feeding our growth. That and we’ve added some 50 thousand more pages in the last two years and are now approaching 200,000 entries, so there is more content to draw readers.
We continue to be a significant resource for local history on the internet and more and more people are noticing. And it’s all due to your work, marker hunters and editors. We make a great team! Thank you all very much.
The statistics I'm quoting are known in the industry as SEO stats. There are tons of them; these are just a few. SEO stands for Search Engine Optimization, a huge professional specialization within website design. Tons of books, articles, blogs and videos have been published on the subject and $100/hr rates for advice is the norm.
The bottom line seems to be that (1) content others want to read (2) in an easy-to-read format, and (3) with easy ways to find it, is the ticket to good SEO. If you do this well, search engines will put your links on their first page, and folks will find you.
I recently explored Puerto Rico and found some markers to add to the Database. The majority of the markers are in Spanish, and while I am doing an honest effort translating them, I would like to extend an open invitation to help with this effort. If someone is more familiar with Spanish than I am, please feel more than welcome to make updates to marker profiles. Historical markers in Puerto Rico
I suggest using Google Translate, then ask J. Malakai Bruton to tidy the translation. This is what I did for couple in Quito, then I simply gave him a couple to add himself, which he readily accomplished.
Here's an article that appeared in the summer edition of "Goldenseal," West Virginia's magazine of popular culture. It chronicles Raleigh County’s historical marker program and is titled A “One Off,” It Ain’t. I obtained the author's approval to host a copy of the article at this link: https://www.historyarchives.org/misc/115.-A-One-Off-It-Aint.pdf
At the time I write this, I noticed I have a coincidence in my numbers. While I am not a "numbers" contributor or kind of person, I did find this interesting. My total markers published number (2845) matches the number of markers added in Louisiana (2845). I know some of you big contributors may never see this but I thought it was quite an odd chance, seeing is how I add markers from different States/Wales, as well as others adding markers for Louisiana (my home state, where most of mine are added to). I have a personal goal of getting 3000 personal as well as, (with help) to get 3000 in Louisiana by years end. Probably won't last too long, just wanted to make a notation of it. Anyone else ever have any coincidental numbers?
That's great! Keep it going! Not the same thing but I remember being so happy when I hit the 'first 100' in 2015 and didn't know that it would be such a long term joy!
I have also recently attained 100 published markers. I find it neat that this site recognizes the contributors that has attained that feat. I started doing this in November 2019.
I had a most interesting day representing the HMdb at the Haddonfield Skirmish and History Faire in Haddonfield, NJ on June 3
Michael Herrick at the Haddonfield History Faire
. My slide show of markers in Haddonfield played while I handed out a few dozen business cards and talked with lots of visitors about historical markers. I demonstrated a few searches on my phone. Everyone who stopped by was very interested. Reenactors of the Skirmish faced off on Kings Highway, the main street in town. After lots of smoke and noise from the muskets, both sides retired in good order. An exciting day in Haddonfield.
At work, I blundered into on one of your "internal" webpages with a list of county boundary .kml files by state for use in Google Earth. You list seem to be the best - others the file size is too large, or boundaries are erroneously offset. But I cannot seem to find it again. Can you direct me to it? Thanks.
They're still there, but now there is a longer way to get to them. This was done to apply the full power of all HMdb searches to creating a KLM lists rather than just geography. Here's how to get there:
1. First do a search. Use the Searches page, or the Locations page, or Topics or Series pages. If you wanted all the markers in Kane County Utah, for example, use the Locations page to click on Utah's blue arrow, then click on Kane County.
2. On the results page you will find the MAP ALL button in the top left. Click it and wait for the map.
3. You'll see the link for the KML file on the map in the upper right.
Persistence pays off with marker hunting. I will start my story back in 2018 when I worked at a company close to downtown Dallas, Texas. At lunchtime I would walk to a restaurant two blocks over and would pass by an old house that had an historical marker in front of it – the Ahab Bowen house. I kept wondering if anyone had created a website of photos and information about historical markers and if not, maybe I could start one. Then I found hmdb.org!!!
I contacted the Regional Editor for my area and offered my assistance for photographing any markers in Dallas County, Dallas, Texas. He sent me a lengthy excel spreadsheet with approximately 500 markers listed. I went through the list line by line checking to see if they were already on the HMDB website and if they were I just deleted that line (didn’t want to waste my time going to one that was already completed).
So then I got on Google Maps and every week I mapped out an area of Dallas County and wrote down directions to each marker. I would spend around 2-3 hours (or more) driving to photograph 13-15 markers each Saturday. I would spend the rest of the day culling those photos down to the best and would spend Sundays and Mondays putting them on the website and then would start all over again.
I found that this was the best hobby I could have found for something to do during Covid lockdown. There were hardly any people on the roads so it was easy to get around, nobody at parks, churches, cemeteries or schools so I could park my car practically anywhere and spend time getting good photos. I went to parts of Dallas County that I had never been to before, saw lots of neighborhoods and communities I’d never knew existed, learned a lot, not just about Dallas history but about my city itself and the residents. Many markers were behind locked gates and I contacted the organizations who owned the properties, explained what I was doing and every one of them was so generous to open their gates and show me around.
I really enjoyed marker hunting (obsession) and was thrilled at all I learned. In each neighborhood I started noticing the same names of individuals popping up. Like a doctor who worked at Parkland hospital with a marker who also had a house with a marker and an organization with a marker with the same doctor’s name. I made sure to photograph that Ahab Bowen house that got me started thinking about historical markers!
I’ve really enjoyed all of the marker hunting I’ve been doing over the past 3+ years, even getting several from all over wherever I traveled in the Continental 48 states. My initial list of 500 markers to do got shorter and shorter. I did find around 35-40 of those 500 markers missing. I would look everywhere, checking in bushes, going all around the building, looking on the ground, searching cemeteries and sometimes I would only find an empty metal pole where the marker used to be. I reported each missing marker to the Dallas County Historical Commission hoping that one day the marker would get replaced.
I went to some pretty scary locations to be at by myself. The only real time I felt scared to be by myself was in an overgrown cemetery. I parked right outside of the locked gate, couldn’t find a way to get in and couldn’t see the marker because of the thick foliage. I was thinking about leaving when a woman walked up and asked if I needed help. I told her what I was doing but couldn’t photograph that marker cause the gate was locked. She said that she just happened to be the one person who had the key! She told me to wait and she’d get the key and let me in. She informed me that the Boy Scouts used to come around a couple of times a year and clear out the cemetery and make it look nice but they stopped coming around. The bushes and weeds must have been around 4 feet tall. I’m climbing over fallen tree branches and crawling into the cemetery grounds. I found two gravestones so I knew I was there. Hunted everywhere for the marker! I was in there for about 15 minutes and realized that anybody could be in the weeds and trees waiting for me so I just gave up looking and left. The lady locked the gate behind me so I was depressed that I couldn’t get that marker.
I was persistent with hunting down so many of the remaining 500 that I ended up getting 330 of them that I could find that hadn’t already been photographed! The list dwindled and dwindled until there was one left. It was on a building in downtown Dallas – the Dallas County Criminal Courts Building on Main Street. That building had been under renovation for a couple of years. When I first went to downtown to get all the markers that building was covered by scaffolding. I would wait months and go all the way back to see if I could get to that marker, even trying to sweet talk some construction workers into letting me photograph the marker that was just 10 feet away. Nope. Going back a year later the scaffolding was gone so I could at least photograph the building but the entrance where the marker was was still blocked by construction. Kept going back every 2 months (14 times total from beginning to end) and was finally successful on March 26, 2023 to actually get a good photo of the marker.
I was sad when I deleted the empty excel spreadsheet that was originally filled with 500+ markers that were needed. It was a fun ride doing Dallas County and I hope to be able to get the random one off marker in future travels! Like I said, persistence pays off.
What a great story and adventure for you. Sometimes the "homework" you do in prep for finding the markers and the time photog
raphing is self-fulfilling. I had done the research for that spreadsheet I sent you in anticipation of traveling to Dallas to photograph them myself. The Editor had long mentioned that large cities are sometimes skipped for a number of reasons. Those reasons might include traffic, unfamiliarity of the city, uneasiness of areas of the city, time, weather, etc.
My hope is that your forum message inspires others to venture out and add many more historical markers to this wonderful site.
And a tip of the hat and mad respect to you, Kayla, for all your efforts!
As Devry pointed out, Texas has overtaken New York on the No. 1 spot on the state/province marker list. It happened about two months ago - I was gonna bloviate about it here on the forum, but hadn’t gotten around to that yet.
One thing we should appreciate that might not be obvious to some is that our Texas contributors work twice as hard as the others, because the typical THC marker has as least twice as many words as markers from other states. I’ll lift a Shiner tonight to you and all the other great Texan contributors we’ve had (especially Duane Hall, RIP)!
Thanks you guys for the kind words! I did find the "homework" getting ready to head out hunting fulfilling. Mark, that spreadsheet you gave me was invaluable! I'm sure I was driving Joseph Makali Bruton crazy with all of my postings. I only wish I could have gotten all the missing ones also. I feel like I want to keep going back to those locations and check them over to see if the marker sign has been replaced. I hope my taking it on took some of the "burden" off of you in your anticipation of traveling to Dallas. And Andrew, I like to think that my contributions aided in getting Texas moved up the list. I had no idea Duane Hall had passed on! Seems like every marker I photographed in the west Texas area he'd already did. He was a huge contributor to the sport. I'm gonna keep traveling and my head will always be on a swivel looking for the silver and black signs.
I made a map! These are the 100 counties in the United States with the most historical markers documented on this site. Also
The current map
linked is a folder with the list as well as a photo that you can enlarge.
You may already know this but just in case not, there are now 4 counties (3 counties and an equivalent) in the U.S. with over 1,000 historical markers in the database:
1. The District of Columbia 2. New York County, New York [The Borough of Manhattan] 3. Adams County, Pennsylvania [the Gettysburg area] 4. Los Angeles County, California [L.A. and many of its suburbs]
On that note, the following county equivalents made the list:
• DC • East Baton Rouge and Orleans Parishes, Louisiana • The City of Baltimore, Maryland • The City of St. Louis, Missouri • The Cities of Richmond, Fredericksburg, Alexandria and Newport News, Virginia
The biggest difference from last year is that there are more counties out west that seem to be highlighted. Also, Cook County, Illinois is on the list now! 100 Most Documented Counties
There are now 5 counties (4 counties and an equivalent) in the U.S. with over 1
,000 historical markers in the database. The new kid on the block is Philadelphia County, Pennsylvania [conterminous with the City of Philadelphia].
Interesting to note, a second Borough of New York City, Brooklyn [Kings County] now makes the list! Also, there are now exactly 100 counties (and equivalents) in the United States with at least 300 historical markers that have been documented in their borders! 2022-12-02 100 Most Documented Counties in the United States
What I find interesting, is Texas, with over 12,000 markers, making it number 2 on the most markers by state, only has 5 counties (if I counted correct) on this list of the "Top 100" and the first county not showing up until almost 500. I guess it just shows both the vastness of Texas both by size and long history. Plus the State does an excellent job of their keeping records of, locations and cataloging markers.
You bring up an interesting point! Area and political geography play a role in counts. For instance, for Northern Virginia, the area of the Counties of Arlington and Fairfax and the independent cities of Alexandria, Falls Church and Fairfax, when combined, have a current count of 1634.
It's been so cool to see Texas's rise recently, particularly with large cities such as Austin, Houston, Dallas, Fort Worth, Galveston, El Paso, Amarillo, Lubbock, and Corpus Christi!
As of today, the independent City of Baltimore, Maryland is now the 6th county (equivalent) in the U.S. to have a count of over 1000 markers!
Additionally, Baltimore City is also the 4th city in the world to have a count of over 1000 markers, after (chronologically) DC, New York City and Philadelphia.
All 4 cities are outliers in U.S. counties (and equivalents):
1. DC is a territory that also acts as a city and county. 2. New York City comprises 5 boroughs that are coextensive with their own counties. Manhattan/New York County is home to the lion's share of the city's markers (although about only 20% of the city's population). 3. The City of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania is coextensive with the County of Philadelphia.
For the other 2 counties with over 1000 markers:
Los Angeles County, California is the most populous county in the country with over 9.8 million residents and home to the second largest city in the U.S. Adams County, Pennsylvania is home to Gettysburg National Military Park. While the much of the county has a place name of Gettysburg, the majority of markers are in Cumberland Township, a municipality just outside of the Borough of Gettysburg (with the same ZIP code as the Borough).
I'm a little late to announcing this, but Davidson County, Tennessee (the Nashville area) has joined the 1000 club!
Additionally, we have a couple new cities in the 1000 Club -- Nashville, TN and Gettysburg, PA.
Note: Gettysburg was previously on the 1000 club, and then fell off when Pennsylvania townships were split out. Since the introduction of the neighborhood field, markers in townships outside of cities and boroughs in Pennsylvania now show the closest city or borough with the township as the neighborhood. In Pennsylvania (which is completely divided into municipalities), townships are equal in stature to cities and boroughs, although they lean more rural. However, the USPS assigns ZIP codes that often do not align to Pennsylvania municipalities. Essentially, Gettysburg is back in the 1000 Club!
The reason that Texas made number 2 on the list of most added markers I like to think was cause of me. I did around 330 markers in Dallas County. I hope I was really able to push the numbers for Texas high! Texas is just waaaay too big....
Kayla, the list likely needs updated! Due to your (and others’) efforts, Texas has overtaken New York as the state with the highest marker count on this site!
If there really are multiple markers on one submission, they should be broken up into individual marker submissions. Note that two-sided markers should be represented by one submission. At least one of the two-sided markers you show here just lacks that all of the erecting organizations are transcribed.
Have you ever wanted a historical marker, but like me, you’re just too lazy to steal one? Or maybe you’re burdened by this thing called a “conscience”? Well, fear not folks - you’ve got a once-in-lifetime opportunity to scoop up, legally-even, your very own piece of history! That’s right - the Southport Historical Society (the one in North Carolina, not the one in Connecticut like I originally thought) is holding an online auction of 16 of their retired historical markers from May 31 thru June 24th. Details are found on the society’s Website, and if you need further information on any of the individual markers, the Society has been releasing a short video for each marker on YouTube (just search with “Southport historical marker” to find them).
We’ve got 20 markers from Southport in the database, of which only 2 are part of the 16 for sale. Those two were found by some guy named “J.J. Prats” back in 2008. He’ll probably kick himself for not stealing them back then, when he sees what they go for now. Such is lost opportunity.
Note that the above is not an endorsement by HMdb.org or by any of its board members. For all I know, it could be a hoax, or the auction might be a scam, or the “Southport Historical Society” could be some kind of nefarious money-laundering scheme. As they say, caveat emptor, or something like that. But as Matt Damon once said, “Fortune favors the brave”, so bid early and often, and if you win one, let us know here on the forum.
I'm glad I have my own 'Marker Graveyard' mounted in my backyard. I'm sure anyone venturing in would be confused if they are in Miami, Tampa, or Orlando! And mine didn't cost me a dime.
You can buy a NRHP plaque on Amazon for just twelve dollars, then install it on a NRHP site needing a plaque, then create a marker page for it! - - NRHP Plaque For Sale
Frequent viewers may have noticed some of them as they rolled out over the last two weekends. Here’s what’s changed so far.
Subtle color changes to soften the look of our pages. There’s some cream in our white and orange, and a touch of purple in our blacks and grays.
We’re using more modern fonts. We’re sizing them bigger and there is more space between lines. With these changes we’re mimicking what print magazines and newspapers are using on their online versions. It leads to better readability.
Our pages are now centered on wide screens, and unused space on the sides are in contrasting gray to focus your attention to the page. Ads run in the unused space and can be rolled up with a click.
On small screens the top ad does a better job at not hiding the navigation bar and is easier to roll away. The cranky bottom ad is gone.
What’s next? A new navigation bar and a new masthead and logo.
With just a few exceptions, these changes are being taken in stride by our readers and users, if the lack of emails on this subject is any indication.
One complaint I'm hearing from more than one source is about is the font size increase. I'm thinking of adding a font size adjustment to the user profile. Stand by.
You can now adjust the website font size in your profile. Sign in and you'll see the Profile link in the upper right above the Search button. A font size of 100% is the new normal font size. Set it to 89% to approximate the old font size.
I think the upgrades are very nice. Easy to read and fill most of the page nicely. The colours are also, to me, very noticeable, and they did seem to "soften" the page quite nice. I personally like it! Thanks for the greatest website on the internet...IMO.
I agree that the photos look brighter, but the browser is in charge of photos, and has no adjustments I can reach, so it may be the softer background that makes them stand out a bit more.
If you wanted to automate "what makes for a more important historical marker entry", what criteria would you use? If you were writing a tour-guide app that wanted to avoid offering you mediocre markers that just barely passed our criteria for inclusion, how would you sort a list of markers near each other in order of significance?
Take these two entries near each other. The first is about a community bandstand that was relocated to here in 1924. The second, just a hundred feet away, is about one of the Confederate surrenders that ended the American Civil War. I'd be upset if the app offered me the bandstand before the surrender.
They both have about the same amount of text, so you can't count on text length. The second has more photographs than the first, but can that be counted on? The second one uses the word "war" 12 times and the first none. The second has an Also-See link, so because there is other info out there on the internet for its topic maybe it is more important.
There is no doubt to us human beings which one is more significant. But how do you begin to automate this?
Andrew Ruppenstein has come up with a simple and easy-to-implement solution that includes the human element. He had trouble posting a response so he sent me an email. The answer: pageviews! Compute a rank based on, say, pageviews divided by the length of time the marker's entry has been in the database.
I'm going implement this for the API that apps use to query the database. And also his other suggestion: a search sort based on this rank.
Using a formula that divides the number of views by the days the entry has been available for viewing while weighing the current year's views ten times more importantly than previous years, and multiplying the result by 1000: the bandstand ranks 11 while the surrender ranks 90.
The most popular entry this year, the Venice Canal marker, ranks 1697; and the most popular entry ever, Still on Patrol, ranks 2234.
I think the rank value itself is meaningless. It's the difference in rank for a set of entries that makes this value useful. Let's call it the ViewRank.
In 1973-74, in the Winter Hill section of Somerville MA, there was a historical marker attached to a brick wall on the north side of Broadway where it intersects with School Street. It read: April 18 1775. While on his famous ride, Paul Revere was stopped here and interrogated by two British soldiers." Or words to that effect. Now there is no marker, and there is no wall, there's just a parking lot.
May one of these be the marker you mentioned? (42.395120, -71.097855) OR (42.395117, -71.097809) - in same park about 1000 f
Near 391 Broadway
t from Broadway & School St.
[Text from link below:] The following tablet is placed at the junction of Broadway and Main St in Paul Revere Park. “Paul Revere passed over this road, in his midnight ride to Lexington and Concord, April 18, 1775,
Site of the ‘Winter Hill Fort’, a stronghold built by the American forces while besieging Boston, 1775-6.”
There is no cost to set up the shop, but I would have no control over the quality and responsiveness of a "merch shop" like t
his Sample Merch Store, the products are not cheap, and no refunds are allowed. On the other hand, they do the stocking, handling and shipping, I do not have to guarantee any sales minimums, and they send a percentage of sales that we can use to cover our hosting expenses. I can shut it down any time. The only down side I see is the lack of control if they disappoint anyone.
Mr. J.J., I personally WOULD purchase a few of the items, and would also for all my family members, since they have to put up with me doing this. On a side note, I been EXTREMELY busy this first quarter at work, so my marker submissions are down, but I hope to get back soon. I hope everyone is doing well.
I would defiantly be interested in HMdb merchandise. A big sticker would be neat to have, especially for those driving behind me ("what is this crazy guy doing, and where is he going?!") Maybe it could say, "I brake for historical markers!" The shirts could say, "On the hunt for historical markers!"
I received my two shirts (one for me and my wife) and my hoodie, recently, but I realized that I am going to need an addition
My new hoodie!
al shirt. When I went on the website, that I purchased my shirts from, and I noticed that only the coffee mugs are available. Is the clothing no longer available, or they just backlogged? I have received multiple inquiries about the website and compliments, already!
Sorry about that, Jeff. I was not happy with the placement of the front logo and turned it off for retooling. I'm glad you liked them and that they are spreading the word about our database. Was going to try a different supplier that could be more flexible but maybe I should turn this one back on until something new is ready.
One surprise for me of the merch industry is how expensive the items are. Our markup is just $2 or $3 on the prices you see. But I have no complaints on the quality.
Am I allowed to correct an Inscription this one is missing the inscription on the back of the marker and lower base.
Text on back: 1776: Appointed Brigadier General - led 2400 men into the Tennessee country against the Cherokee, subduing them 1780: Defeated the Tories in the Battle of Ramseur's Mills, in the Battle of Camden under Gen. Gates. He was wounded and made a Prisoner of War. 1781: Exchanged, he expelled the last of the British Forces at Wilmington 1786: Removed to Sumner County, Tennessee 1794: Commissioned by President Washington & member of the Council of State (Upper House) of the Southwest Territory, and elected president of the Council
(Lower Base):
Erected in 1946 the year of Tennessee's Sesquicentennial of Statehood by Tennessee Historical Commission Rutherford County Courts City of Murfreesboro Daughters of the American Revolution Col. Hardy Murfree Chapter Col. Wm. Lytle Chapter Citizens and Schools
You need to add photos (ideally in this case), or convince the editor you're not making it up with some other evidence. So yes, you're allowed and encouraged! Use the Correct this page and Add Photo links to add missing info.
Is there a general policy on transcribing photo and illustration credits on markers?
Modern markers are incorporating many photos and drawings, and several have lengthly photo credits and attributions. Most are simple, but I recently become involved in some that are quite involved. For sample, a photo of a sculpture has:
"Cartaino di Sciarrino Pietro (American 1856-1918) John Burroughs, 1918, bronze, Toledo Museum of Art, Gift of William E. Bruck, 1918"
While such information is useful, it isn't germane to the topic at hand, and lessens from the marker transcription to include it. After all, the marker isn't about that photo/image but something larger.
My own personal feeling is not to include these items, but I've encountered mixed sediments. Some editors like to include everything; other editors don't or edit it out.
I will go with the majority, but I'm interested in the general community feeling.
I’m not sure I can give a precise answer, but I can provide two guiding principles.
The first is to give credit where credit is due, with (if necessary) precedence given to the image creator(s) over the holders/providers. One of my pet peeves, is when a contributor has their name in the photo credit for a marker inset photo that they have, in essence, merely copied.
The second has to do with historical method - namely, that if possible, post whatever info is available to help someone track down the image, if they were to so desire. If space is limited, then I’d give precedence to the first principle, simply because historical markers are rarely primary sources, and most of the time it isn’t that difficult to guess where an image came from.
As noted above, the marker inset images often aren’t overly critical. I don’t have strong feelings either way as to whether they’re included or not. On my own submissions, I try to include them if they add to the story or if they’re aesthetically appealing. In other words, I usually see them as nice-to-haves, rather than should-haves or must-haves.
One other thing I’ll note is the changes in technology over the years has changed things a bit. I mean, like a dozen years ago people took pictures with potatoes, and so the inset marker images looked like crap, and some of the resulting marker pages ended up being aesthetic disasters. Nowadays camera image quality is loads better, plus the software for cropping, adjusting contrast, and adjusting/straightening the photo perspective is now a lot easier to use, so I hope people keep that in mind if submitting inset images.
There is no set rule. I generally transcribe the captions but not the credits. Like Andy says, the credits are there to be read off the photo for those who need them.
I like to put the captions in the "Optional Comments on the Marker Itself and its Location" section, and begin the section with something like "The marker contains three illustrations with the following captions (clockwise from top left):" and follow with each caption in double quotes as additional sentences to the paragraph. Craig Swain started this method back in 2007 for the Civil War Trails markers he submitted or edited and I liked it.
Putting the captions there declutters the Inscription section. The system also indexes this section so searches find keywords here too.
I notice that two entries below both have pictures of two markers is it permissible to include the inscriptions of both? https://www.hmdb.org/m.asp?m=130099 https://www.hmdb.org/m.asp?m=68683
If the second marker qualified for its own page (the ones pictured here do not) then the inscription would go there. In this
case, the inscriptions of these historic (but not historical) markers should be written out in the photo captions. Transcribing them in the captions allows their words to be searched online, both with our search tools, and by internet search engines like Google and Bing.
I'd like to politely disagree here -- there's space for the two supplemental signs to qualify for the Database using the series exception, since the signs were erected by the Daughters of the American Revolution (DAR). That noted, if they weren't erected by a group that had their own series, I'd consider them iffy.
I believe that they should have their own listing, and should be linked together. Since, the pink granite markers were placed along the highways marking El Camino Real, with several of them having their listing in the Texas Historical Commission website / atlas. For example: 8158, 8159, 8160 and 8161.
Markers should not have their own page unless they have additional historical information. The original page can still be connected to a series or other lists.
"From 1915-18, the State of Texas and the Daughters of the American Revolution together placed 123 pink granite markers about every five miles along the King’s Highway, also known as Camino Real or Old San Antonio Road, the trail blazed in 1690 by Alonso de Leon. Surveyor V. N. Zively mapped the route through south, central and east Texas. Most of these markers are still intact.
The current Official Texas Historical Marker program dates to 1962, and it has been a popular means for interpreting local and state history and encouraging heritage tourism for more than four decades."
This new Official Historical Markers are not necessary placed were the historical event or object was but in the general area where they will been seen.
There are now 33 National Historical Trails 50% of those span more that one state. These Historical Trail have many point along the 1000's of miles. What I saw in my head is the possibility of having maybe a parent–child relationship with a one monument being the parent with all the long historical information and the others being the child with the condensed historical information. Sorry I am a Database Admin and did not know how else word this. HMDB uses SQL Server relational database.
Here is an example of a State Historical marker which is approx. 0.7 miles away from the actual site of Fort Twitty (Twetty) https://www.hmdb.org/m.asp?m=30990 Kentucky Historical Marker Fort approx. 0.7 miles away https://www.hmdb.org/m.asp?m=217804 Actual Location of Fort Twitty
Here is an example of what would be consider as a verbose El Camino Real historical marker which is next to a more abbreviated El Camino Real historical marker
The "Related Markers" feature in an entry's main form is a way to create parent-child relationships for an entry. List all the child entries there by Marker ID, separated by commas.
Normally two markers with separate issuers would each warrant their own page, and it would not be necessary for each page to have pictures of both of them.
In this instance, it is appropriate to have the DAR markers on the THC marker pages because the THC markers mentions the DAR marking program.
Do the DAR markers warrant their own pages? Arguably, yes. Not all DAR markers are eligible for inclusion, and I’d be the last to argue that we should give them a page simply because they’re from the DAR. But they are trail markers that belong to a recognized trail series, and we’ve tended to be a bit more permissive with the inclusion of trail makers because (I think), a) their very location (i.e., “here went the trail”) essentially provides the missing text to qualify, and, b) including them adds value to the trail series as a whole. (For those who haven’t done this, try mapping a trail series to see what I mean.)
If they don’t get their separate pages, then those two THC markers should be added to the DAR series, so that those interested in DAR markers can find them. That would certainly be my approach if they weren’t trail markers.
Our organization, the Blackburn Family Association, has commissioned an historical marker to be placed just north of West Grove, PA. The marker is complete and we need an expert to do the installation. Any recommendations?
Let's see if an expert sees your post and responds. We as an organization do not erect markers, we just document them online, so we have no expertise in installing them. When your marker is installed, we hope someone in your organization will photograph the event and upload the marker to our website. Take a look at FAQ Nos. 1, 2, and 26.
It depends on the type of marker you are installing, but you can check this resource from the Texas Historical Commission.
Besides the technical installation, also consider confirming with the property owner and others that the marker is not infringing on any rights-of-way, etc. We see some markers get installed and then are removed because of differences of opinion. Also consider programs for mowing or snow-plowing near the marker, as those also seem to take out their fair share of markers. THC marker installation instructions
I install markers all the time in Florida. I am the marker repair guy for the state. If you are getting your marker from Sewah, then it is very easy to do and shouldn't take more than 15 minutes. Dig a hole 3 feet deep and insert the post. Sometimes a 60 lb bag of concrete can be placed in the hole around the post but isn't necessary though it will make it more stable. Make sure you use a level to check for straightness. After this is completed, top the hole with dirt and place the marker on the post. Again, use the level to make sure the marker is straight and tighten the provided setscrews. That's all there is to it. If you are using a different company, the process is very similar for most. Generally, one person can do the install for aluminum markers. Cast iron ones take two to lift it. Free free to contact me if you have any questions.
I was reviewing the list of The Roads and Trails Marker Series names and could not help but notice that there are two in the HMDB list that do not have the National Historic Trail destination.
California National Historic Trail (1992) El Camino Real de Tierra Adentro National Historic Trail (2000)
If you have the time, why don't you add those two missing trail series for us? Here is the best way to create and populate a new series:
Sign in and search the database, tagging (FAQ #21) each entry that qualifies for the series.
Once you have them all, (1) click "Suggest a new series" (upper left of the Series page) and fill out the form. Then (2) Find the new series you just created and click on the orange "++".
Now, pull up the tagged list and select the first entry on the list. You'll see a "propose this entry" link in the upper right of the marker page. click it. Then click the "Next" arrow to see the next entry. Repeat until you're done.
Let an editor know when you've finished. That part of our work queue is not visited often.
Actual l Camino Real de Tierra Adentro is not missing per the description it was identified in the description as a National Historic Trail it just not reflected in the name like all the others. El Camino Real de Tierra Adentro (92) — ++ El Camino Real de Tierra Adentro (Spanish for "The Royal Road of the Interior Land") was a 1,600 mile (2560 kilometer) long trade route between Mexico City and San Juan Pueblo, New Mexico, from 1598 to 1882. The 404 mile (646 kilometer) section of the route within the United States was proclaimed as a National Historic Trail on October 13, 2000.
With regards to California Trail the one in HMDB includes both Northern and Southern route because I can see entries in there for Oklahoma and Texas. Per the NPS California National Historic Trail (northern California Road) California, Colorado, Idaho, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada, Oregon, Utah, Wyoming
It won't stick to your plastic bumper but it should stick to your trunk lid or tail gate. They are approx. 10 x 3 inches. I j
ust placed the order for 50 of them and they should be ready by the end of the month. Email me your mailing address and I'll mail them out as soon as I get them. Thanks to Jeff Leichsenring for the idea!
Are updates(corrections) submitted and automatically accepted? I have two recently that brings this in question. First one only correction was a page break. I submitted my concern about this to the Editor, yet no response? The other extended the geo coordinates. I rely on the site to provide coordinates. If additional numbers are allowed to be included should I go back and include additional numbers to all submitted markers that the site didn’t provide ? Additionally, one of the corrections is not correct. I have expressed my concern about this with no reply? I have better things to do yet should I then correct the correctors? If so … How when they don’t respond back?
Brandon, you've burned out all the other regional editors and I'm the last one you've got. You already know that you'll only get responses from me. I wrote to you Thursday to let you know that I was leaving town and would be back next week. It would have been good for you to hold questions until I could return so I could respond on a real keyboard. Since you switched from email to a public forum you are forcing me to respond from my cell phone because I can't leave your post without a reply that long.
"Any change no matter how trivial will be reported to you" the automated email says. A line break is trivial in my book. Why do you want to discuss it? Our editors go thru hundreds of changes a week. Why second guess them? Likewise geo coordinates adjustments. If someone else wants to go to the trouble to move the pushpin a few feet to the left to more precisely touch the marker, what's it to you?
But if the correction is wrong, please do change it back. No need to inquire why it was changed, just correct it back and you're done. But only if you want to--you are a self-directed volunteer like the rest of us. Anyone can make a mistake and anyone else can correct it. That's the only way this site can be as accurate as it is. And it's surprisingly accurate!
Editors know how accurate a contributor typically is and after a while will approve changes with just a cursory check. I do that with your submissions because you are quite accurate. It’s the only way we can get our work done. Errors will sneak in with this method. And hopefully someone else will correct them sooner than later.
Stop letting changes bother you. Every one else I know enjoys themselves on this website. Let it go and enjoy yourself.